tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36864475.post4533576545964751095..comments2023-07-02T05:14:05.375-04:00Comments on The Clyde Fitch Report: Fringe Story vs. Fringe StoryLeonard Jacobshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14736316792887920991noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36864475.post-26125423279657546202007-08-18T21:53:00.000-04:002007-08-18T21:53:00.000-04:00Leaving the idealogy of what the NYC Fringe could ...Leaving the idealogy of what the NYC Fringe could or should be aside for a moment, I'd like to contribute my experience as a participant. The Fringe is quite simply a practical way for Indie theatre artists to find a wider audience for their work, and for the money, it's a good deal. <BR/>The last time we did our play Riding the Bull we struggled to fill the house and recieved only two reviews. Now we're selling briskly and have been reviewed seven times. That increase in audience and exposure is worth $550 easy. The process of staging our play within the Fringe rules was indeed difficult, but our Venue Director and Box Office Manager have been more than professional- they have been passionate advocates for our show in particular and the Fringe in general. <BR/><BR/>Last night I had the chance to see Mac Rogers' play Hail Satan, and had not only a great time, but also an interesting discussion with a man sitting in front of me. He'd already been to twelve Fringe shows and was eager for more. He wasn't a theatre person. He said simply the Fringe was a chance for him to recharge and refresh himself.<BR/><BR/>The night before I saw Richard Watson give a beautifully present and human performance in Shadow People. Tomorrow I'll check out one of my favorite new playwright's shows, Adam Szymkowicz's Susan Gets Some Play. The Fringe has afforded us a chance to develop and deepen our relationships with these and other interesting artists. <BR/><BR/>Any Fringe will only be as good as the artists who participate. There is no way to fix that from the top down. And as much as grand solutions appeal to me, I feel like the real change will happen on the ground. It will happen when artists use the Fringe to challenge and support each other. It will happen when the opportunity and exposure the Fringe can help provide allows these artists to grow, both in ability and resources. I think that growth will be incremental, messy and difficult. <BR/><BR/>Yes, I wish the $20,000 wasn't there, more on principle than on the lottery practicality Leonard points out. Yes, the infrastructure could be better. And yes, we should find a way to keep the audiences created by the Fringe more engaged with Indie Theater. Yes every fucking New Yorkers Fringe! Yes I say yes we should yes.<BR/><BR/>I just think it's going to happen one slow step at a time. Trial and error. Little successes, interesting failures. And there's a lot of critics and bloggers out there logging long hours at shows good, bad and ugly trying to make sure those steps see a little light. Thank you for doing that. <BR/><BR/>But that's just my experience down here, trying to make this shot at our play into something beautiful. So far, for me, the Fringe is worth doing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36864475.post-55269042428003858312007-08-16T16:56:00.000-04:002007-08-16T16:56:00.000-04:00For me, the most significant comment about the cur...For me, the most significant comment about the current Fringe is this, also from Elena Holy, buried at the end of the Times piece:<BR/><BR/>"One of Ms. Holy's concerns is that those who love the Fringe's madness may not be developing a habit. 'A lot of our audience — particularly the young ones, the 18- to 25-year-olds — see 20 shows during the festival, and then they don’t see a show the whole rest of the year,' she said."<BR/><BR/>This would seem to call into question the role of the Fringe as a means of exposing non-theatregoers to downtown artists, rather than exposing them to the institution of the Fringe. Even Holy suggests that it doesn't seem to be working. Instead, the Fringe is in danger of becoming a self-perpetuating behemoth, serving more its continued existence than any work that it "produces," if that's the word that can be used here. Instead of the work speaking for itself, it just becomes fuel for this year's festival.George Hunkahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06579255517402620982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36864475.post-17225306356164401862007-08-16T16:13:00.000-04:002007-08-16T16:13:00.000-04:00Nice discussion on the Fringe. This is my first ye...Nice discussion on the Fringe. This is my first year participating, and first and foremost I'm just enjoying a low cost, wide variety of theatrical offerings that otherwise would be missed. Always good to discuss finer points though. Check out a volunteer/viewers commentary at Newbie NYC (http://newbienyc.blogspot.com)Mary Hiltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06203169343935447428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36864475.post-26663604936415285232007-08-16T14:16:00.000-04:002007-08-16T14:16:00.000-04:00Just of point of clarification: I haven't done the...Just of point of clarification: I haven't done the Fringe in five years, but I think you have to pay extra for Ron Lasko.Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16073241969401141732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36864475.post-49896793247820478492007-08-16T14:13:00.000-04:002007-08-16T14:13:00.000-04:00Great job with this Leonard.Great job with this Leonard.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36864475.post-33307407258805708782007-08-16T12:05:00.000-04:002007-08-16T12:05:00.000-04:00I find this fascinating. Here in Toronto, our frin...I find this fascinating. Here in Toronto, our fringe has gone the completely unjuried route and we've had tremendous success with innovative work. (I'm sure everyone's heard the <I>Drowsy Chaperone</I> story by now.) We too have a problem in that the city is so large that it doesn't become adopted the way it is in Winnipeg or Edmonton (the gold standard for the fringe touring companies). We've dealt with this by having a venue designated as the fringe club, which has the advance ticket box office, an outdoor patio with an information booth and computers for patrons to check or post reviews. The event is also strongly supported by the press - the two alternative weeklies have complete coverage, including blogs, and the dailies do review and preview some of the shows as well.<BR/><BR/>I know some people who have gone on to do the NY Fringe and they had the same complaints about support. In Toronto for your admission fee, you get a venue that comes with an in-house technician and a house manager - paid staff of the Fringe. The Fringe machine is incredibly efficient and they handle issues promptly and throughly. They do seminars for the companies in advance of the fringe to help with marketing and production issues. There is also no requirement to take a percentage of the royalties. The Fringe just uses the successful shows as a way to showcase and grow the festival. Drowsy is just the most successful of many shows that have gone on to national and international success.<BR/><BR/>I have a bit of a different perspective in that I've also done the Adelaide Fringe, which runs off the Edinburgh model. And honestly, it was a horrible experience I don't wish to repeat. Having come from the welcoming arms of the Canadian fringe circuit, the lack of support was jarring. I know the NY fringe was developed to be closer to that model.<BR/><BR/>I think the NY Fringe would do well to look at what we do here in Toronto. We have a model that works.MK Piatkowskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03121227101455959849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36864475.post-88848170597922577882007-08-16T11:54:00.000-04:002007-08-16T11:54:00.000-04:00Totally makes sense, Isaac. Also, I really do get ...Totally makes sense, Isaac. Also, I really do get the resentment, the concern, the feeling of "What right does anyone have to 2% of anything that I've created?" if -- and this is a big if -- that's an issue for someone. All I'm saying is that the numbers we are talking about are ultimately so low, so ludicrously low, that for Soloski to attribute the "amateurishness" of the Fringe to it is just, well, amateurish and ill-considered. No, I guess you probably shouldn't do a show in the Fringe (I don't know that I ever will, either). And I also think all of your points with regard to the process ("for $500, I get a maybe good, maybe not-good venue, a totally untrained volunteer staf member, little to know technical resources and a small bit of Ron Lasko's time) are on the money, as it were. That's why, in my post, I said "Bingo" -- I agree with Gantner that the way Fringe participants are treated, or feel they are treated, is in the final analysis a much bigger issue and far more worthy of some ink, than the Voice taking some insipid, subjective approach to a jerrybuilt nonissue.Leonard Jacobshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14736316792887920991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36864475.post-47461547763411067882007-08-16T11:12:00.000-04:002007-08-16T11:12:00.000-04:00Hey Leonard,Good post! On my own post on the subje...Hey Leonard,<BR/><BR/>Good post! On my own post on the subject, I should've made it clear that I didn't buy SOloski's assertion that getting rid of the royalties thing would improve the writing of Fringe shows.<BR/><BR/>I have to say, though... even though I can't articulate exactly <I>why</I> I feel this way, regardless of whether or not the royalties thing affects a lot of writers, I still find that in principle it really bugs the crap out of me. Maybe this has to do with many of my friends absolutely terrible experiences doing fringe shows and dealing with a general lack of support for their work within the festival. <BR/><BR/>It seems kinda like... let me get this straight... for $500, I get a maybe good, maybe not-good venue, a totally untrained volunteer staf member, little to know technical resources and a small bit of Ron Lasko's time <I>and</I> you take a percentage of my royalties should it become successful?<BR/><BR/>Does that make any sense?<BR/>This is probably more a sign that I just shouldn't do a fringe show than anything else....parabasishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12476856869466695694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36864475.post-65456646512982443742007-08-16T09:50:00.000-04:002007-08-16T09:50:00.000-04:00This is a really great, thought-provoking post, Le...This is a really great, thought-provoking post, Leonard. I'm going to mull on this, but also try to send some traffic over here to chat. Thanks for doing all the number-crunching, which is really edifying.Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16073241969401141732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36864475.post-75645667119337168012007-08-15T17:07:00.000-04:002007-08-15T17:07:00.000-04:00the TIMES article read like a puff piece spewed fr...the TIMES article read like a puff piece spewed from the typewriter of an overzealous publicist. Plus the airbrushed photo of Elena :).... whereas the VOICE actually brought up some interesting arguments. I know we discussed some of that in private but perhaps we'll get to debate it in public...in the bloggo world....Jen Ryan's Brainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05960481505252525590noreply@blogger.com